Bungled is the word that came to mind for me too. Chiefs have to be kicking themselves for doing Sherman a favor and touching their wagon to his initiative.
Johnson Co probably will give the Royals what they want. I kinda hope Sherman DIYs the East Crossroads location though. Like maybe he's really committed to the idea of downtown baseball in KC.
That 670 park and stadium/arena would have been a great centerpiece for the city but it did look kinda phallic from the air.
The Chiefs could’ve made some sort of an impact, but their participation has always been kind of reluctant it seems. The threat of Kansas becoming a player in this will probably move this along in some manner. This is just the opening act. There’s still plenty more to come.
We forget that Donovan disclosed ~2 years ago that there have been conversations with Kansas. Backlash ensued and Clark Hunt walked it back in so many words, but that all did not transpire by accident. The Hunt family wanted that message out there.
If you look at the trend for NFL team HQ/training facilities - more upscale suburbs, partnerships with major health systems - it's a short putt to believe the Chiefs would like to straddle the state line at the very least. I am not convinced that the team HQ commitment wasn't a bigger piece of the negotiations with the county than we've heard about.
Reams of data and studies show dubious economic impact of stadiums etc. Simply rearranging overall area spending. How about the public funders get a % of the increased value of the franchise when it’s sold to the next billionaire who wants into the club. You know that good old capitalist idea of real return on investment?!!
Truth. On both statements. Not every turn through the rotation is going to be this strong, but damn if they haven’t set an attractive baseline. I will always dig Maddux-like location and efficiency.
Thanks for your extremely cogent analysis of the election debacle. Sherman and Co. are squarely to blame for putting together a half-baked idea that most people hate.
To me, i didn't like the spin of everything. Seemed very deceitful. "It's not a new tax."...Well, yeah, it's an extension of an existing tax but more money out of my pocket at the end of this thing. "There's concrete cancer or ASR"...I'm a structural & bridge engineer and I'm hesitant to buy into this until i see it for myself (which i've not seen on my many trips to the K), or a report is published from a credible source documenting the issues. As you noted Craig, why The K and not Arrowhead? The renderings with the deck park over I-670...as a bridge engineer, I know the current plans for the deck park stop at Grand but the renderings show the deck park all the way up proposed new stadium. More spin to help their cause. "Keep the team in Jackson County" they said. Feels like fear mongering that a no vote will ensure Jackson county looses the Royals and perhaps encouraging the less informed to jump to the conclusion of Royals leaving KC Metro all together.
FYI, someone posted this link on one of Lee Judge's articles about the concrete cancer, and it includes links to reports on both stadiums by Burns McDonnell.
I really like the deck over the highway. I think it’s wild the Royals expanded that project in their renderings without any explanation as to who would pay.
The fear mongering was the result of the partnership with Jeff Roe’s Axiom Strategies outfit. Stoking fear is the only thing they know how to do. And apparently they don’t do that well.
The bungled (bundled) stadium proposal. Too bad the Chiefs were sucked into this folly. The Chiefs recent success didn’t translate in the final vote total. I believe the downtown stadium would have been defeated by an even larger margin if not for the Chiefs involvement. Unfortunately the two teams are literally tied together when it comes to resolving their future. Solution: Replicate a future Truman Sports Complex on the state line and bring in Missouri/Kansas to equally fund. The state line could run down the 50-yard line of the new Arrowhead bisecting home plate in the new Kauffman to dead center field. Both states could do a 50/50 split on the revenue. Problem solved!!
Whatever comes next should start with a genuine mea culpa from Sherman, and he could do far worse than have that sit-down with you.
You nailed it from the jump. He let one band of consultants convince him that he could capitalize on his stadium traffic to make an extra billion from an entertainment district that he could sell off in a decade, at which time he'd have his bait back from buying the team. Hooyah, sign me up.
Then he let another bunch of consultants convince him that in order to use other people's money (and experience) to get that district built, he had to engineer the impression of competition from other localities. Sure, NKC is still KC, why not move just across the river!
When that turned out to be a mirage, and with time running out, he cobbled together what yet another cabal of (political) consultants said was a placeholder that'd be good enough as long as he stayed joined at the hip with the 2x Super Bowl Champs. He assented to hiring one of the worst demagogues in US politics, who, to the shock of no one, pivoted to messaging so civically repugnant Sherman publicly disavowed it before the vote.
He let this entire horde of consultants convince him he was in an entirely different business - real estate - than the one he signed up for (baseball), and he's paid a price that will be hard to recoup.
If I were a consultant of any sort, I'd stay far away from John Sherman for a minute. Of course, they'll be lined up around the corner as I write this.
A little contrition could go a long way. Would that happen? Sam McDowell on Petro’s podcast said he thinks this outfit lacks the ability to reflect and learn.
Sherman isn’t dumb, and I’m still naive enough to believe he wants to do something for his team and the city (and pocket a buck or two at the same time), but boy did he screw this up.
That's an interesting comment from McDowell about an outfit that includes McDowell's notably reflective predecessor in the columnist chair. Has anyone done a welfare check on Mellinger lately btw? He might be the only person feeling worse than Sherman today.
I'm with you: Sherman already owned a big chunk of a baseball team in a market with much better demographics/economics than KC, and he gave that up to be The Guy in his hometown. I also trust what I've read/heard from Lonnie Shalton and other longtime KC folks who knew Sherman before he began his pursuit of the Royals. Glass got guilted into buying the team, more or less, whereas Sherman had an easy out.
It's just incredible to think that the Royals lost a vote in tandem with Patrick Mahomes and 2x defending SB champs, and supported by the labor unions, the business community, and Freedom Inc and its brethren to boot. By 20,000 votes. That should not be possible. Like you said, a case study.
Great analysis on the election, Craig (and on the actual baseball, of course). Instead of taking the time to create a coherent plan that showed they cared about both the past and the future of the organization, the Royals gave voters a constantly changing plan with renderings of Generic Baseball Park that could be in any city. And the Chiefs...VIP this, VIP that. I can't believe people weren't lining up to support these ideas.
Thanks Darin! The renderings always surprised me for their lack of connection to the city and the team. That should’ve been the easiest part of this process and they had years to think about this and they still screwed it up.
Worst of all is they totally underestimated the intelligence of the voters. They smelled a sham process and voted accordingly.
Just mind blowing incompetence from the jump. I still think the Royals are most likely to stay in KC and that their next ballot measure will pass. But it will be with, as you noted, some concrete details and hopefully a much better CBA
Yay Royals! Boo Sherman. So many head scratchers from the campaign, it makes me wonder if they want to have an excuse to move (at least over the line). Congrats to the people of Jackson County for making their voices heard with such a large turnout.
Bungled is the word that came to mind for me too. Chiefs have to be kicking themselves for doing Sherman a favor and touching their wagon to his initiative.
Johnson Co probably will give the Royals what they want. I kinda hope Sherman DIYs the East Crossroads location though. Like maybe he's really committed to the idea of downtown baseball in KC.
That 670 park and stadium/arena would have been a great centerpiece for the city but it did look kinda phallic from the air.
The Chiefs could’ve made some sort of an impact, but their participation has always been kind of reluctant it seems. The threat of Kansas becoming a player in this will probably move this along in some manner. This is just the opening act. There’s still plenty more to come.
The two teams relocating to Kansas City Kansas would be the funniest outcome. My KCMO friends would live to regret it!
We forget that Donovan disclosed ~2 years ago that there have been conversations with Kansas. Backlash ensued and Clark Hunt walked it back in so many words, but that all did not transpire by accident. The Hunt family wanted that message out there.
If you look at the trend for NFL team HQ/training facilities - more upscale suburbs, partnerships with major health systems - it's a short putt to believe the Chiefs would like to straddle the state line at the very least. I am not convinced that the team HQ commitment wasn't a bigger piece of the negotiations with the county than we've heard about.
Reams of data and studies show dubious economic impact of stadiums etc. Simply rearranging overall area spending. How about the public funders get a % of the increased value of the franchise when it’s sold to the next billionaire who wants into the club. You know that good old capitalist idea of real return on investment?!!
It would be nice. Maybe they’d settle for deeply discounted tickets.
Marsh was fantastic! Assuming good health, we should not see Mr Lyles as a starter now. Big upgrade!
Truth. On both statements. Not every turn through the rotation is going to be this strong, but damn if they haven’t set an attractive baseline. I will always dig Maddux-like location and efficiency.
Thanks for your extremely cogent analysis of the election debacle. Sherman and Co. are squarely to blame for putting together a half-baked idea that most people hate.
Thanks, Greg. I think half-baked is a great description of what we saw. I would also consider quarter-baked. What a disaster.
To me, i didn't like the spin of everything. Seemed very deceitful. "It's not a new tax."...Well, yeah, it's an extension of an existing tax but more money out of my pocket at the end of this thing. "There's concrete cancer or ASR"...I'm a structural & bridge engineer and I'm hesitant to buy into this until i see it for myself (which i've not seen on my many trips to the K), or a report is published from a credible source documenting the issues. As you noted Craig, why The K and not Arrowhead? The renderings with the deck park over I-670...as a bridge engineer, I know the current plans for the deck park stop at Grand but the renderings show the deck park all the way up proposed new stadium. More spin to help their cause. "Keep the team in Jackson County" they said. Feels like fear mongering that a no vote will ensure Jackson county looses the Royals and perhaps encouraging the less informed to jump to the conclusion of Royals leaving KC Metro all together.
FYI, someone posted this link on one of Lee Judge's articles about the concrete cancer, and it includes links to reports on both stadiums by Burns McDonnell.
https://www.kmbc.com/article/engineering-study-says-kauffman-stadium-is-in-satisfactory-condition/60000213
I really like the deck over the highway. I think it’s wild the Royals expanded that project in their renderings without any explanation as to who would pay.
The fear mongering was the result of the partnership with Jeff Roe’s Axiom Strategies outfit. Stoking fear is the only thing they know how to do. And apparently they don’t do that well.
The bungled (bundled) stadium proposal. Too bad the Chiefs were sucked into this folly. The Chiefs recent success didn’t translate in the final vote total. I believe the downtown stadium would have been defeated by an even larger margin if not for the Chiefs involvement. Unfortunately the two teams are literally tied together when it comes to resolving their future. Solution: Replicate a future Truman Sports Complex on the state line and bring in Missouri/Kansas to equally fund. The state line could run down the 50-yard line of the new Arrowhead bisecting home plate in the new Kauffman to dead center field. Both states could do a 50/50 split on the revenue. Problem solved!!
I think you’re right about the Chiefs. And I think the Royals believed that could be enough to swing this their way. But they ignored everything else.
I like your idea. If we can put a beer distributor ship on the state line, why not a stadium? Or two.
Whatever comes next should start with a genuine mea culpa from Sherman, and he could do far worse than have that sit-down with you.
You nailed it from the jump. He let one band of consultants convince him that he could capitalize on his stadium traffic to make an extra billion from an entertainment district that he could sell off in a decade, at which time he'd have his bait back from buying the team. Hooyah, sign me up.
Then he let another bunch of consultants convince him that in order to use other people's money (and experience) to get that district built, he had to engineer the impression of competition from other localities. Sure, NKC is still KC, why not move just across the river!
When that turned out to be a mirage, and with time running out, he cobbled together what yet another cabal of (political) consultants said was a placeholder that'd be good enough as long as he stayed joined at the hip with the 2x Super Bowl Champs. He assented to hiring one of the worst demagogues in US politics, who, to the shock of no one, pivoted to messaging so civically repugnant Sherman publicly disavowed it before the vote.
He let this entire horde of consultants convince him he was in an entirely different business - real estate - than the one he signed up for (baseball), and he's paid a price that will be hard to recoup.
If I were a consultant of any sort, I'd stay far away from John Sherman for a minute. Of course, they'll be lined up around the corner as I write this.
A little contrition could go a long way. Would that happen? Sam McDowell on Petro’s podcast said he thinks this outfit lacks the ability to reflect and learn.
Sherman isn’t dumb, and I’m still naive enough to believe he wants to do something for his team and the city (and pocket a buck or two at the same time), but boy did he screw this up.
That's an interesting comment from McDowell about an outfit that includes McDowell's notably reflective predecessor in the columnist chair. Has anyone done a welfare check on Mellinger lately btw? He might be the only person feeling worse than Sherman today.
I'm with you: Sherman already owned a big chunk of a baseball team in a market with much better demographics/economics than KC, and he gave that up to be The Guy in his hometown. I also trust what I've read/heard from Lonnie Shalton and other longtime KC folks who knew Sherman before he began his pursuit of the Royals. Glass got guilted into buying the team, more or less, whereas Sherman had an easy out.
It's just incredible to think that the Royals lost a vote in tandem with Patrick Mahomes and 2x defending SB champs, and supported by the labor unions, the business community, and Freedom Inc and its brethren to boot. By 20,000 votes. That should not be possible. Like you said, a case study.
Great analysis on the election, Craig (and on the actual baseball, of course). Instead of taking the time to create a coherent plan that showed they cared about both the past and the future of the organization, the Royals gave voters a constantly changing plan with renderings of Generic Baseball Park that could be in any city. And the Chiefs...VIP this, VIP that. I can't believe people weren't lining up to support these ideas.
Thanks Darin! The renderings always surprised me for their lack of connection to the city and the team. That should’ve been the easiest part of this process and they had years to think about this and they still screwed it up.
Worst of all is they totally underestimated the intelligence of the voters. They smelled a sham process and voted accordingly.
Just mind blowing incompetence from the jump. I still think the Royals are most likely to stay in KC and that their next ballot measure will pass. But it will be with, as you noted, some concrete details and hopefully a much better CBA
Yay Royals! Boo Sherman. So many head scratchers from the campaign, it makes me wonder if they want to have an excuse to move (at least over the line). Congrats to the people of Jackson County for making their voices heard with such a large turnout.