Nancy Howser, Bo Jackson bobbleheads and Game 6 of the 1985 World Series are mentioned, though! Along with what are the now-usual vague details. Specifics must be for another time.
Absolutely. And I think one of the first timesSherman proposed it, he made it sound like the owner group would pay for most of it. I’m probably remembering wrong or wishfully.
Like Seth said, the ballpark village will be 100% funded by the ownership group and the club. Which is the way it should be. He’s been very vague on how much the team will pony up for a new stadium. At this point, the lack of details is very frustrating to me.
The Dunn family is in the ownership group, so I’d assume they’d be heavily involved in the development. Again, details here are rather murky. They probably do need an outside partner, but as long as that partner isn’t the taxpayers, I’m good with that.
Developers take risk on the outcome of a project; general contractors like Dunn get paid as long as they deliver the project to spec. Same for the architects and engineers and suppliers and consultants all cheerleading for the new boondoggle. None of them have any skin in the game, and they win even when taxpayers lose.
It'd be a positive to see Dunn put some skin in the game, but that's be a big reversal of a long history. More likely, they're helping lead the sales pitch to east coast developers like Cordish, given that no one local (including the Hunt family / Hunt Midwest) would touch this thing.
This has reached a juncture where Sherman's interests are now potentially diverging from limited partners like Dunn, who get paid regardless of where the stadium lands. My knowledge about limited partner rules in MLB is zero, but it always amuses me when these deals get done and LP lists are strategically leaked to build excitement and credibility. I'd bet a fair number of folks in the Royals ownership group would love a do-over right about now, particularly if they have to cross the river for the handful of games they attend each season. It'll be telling whether Sherman has the sway to keep all of them united, or if leaks start emerging.
Kinda weird how we'll-move-the-team-to-wherever-gives-us-the-most-money is the more honest negotiating approach.
Anyway, it's not my tax money and I like the K, but I think downtown baseball is neat. I agree that the economic benefits are way oversold, but I do think it spurs cities to invest in infrastructure which I do think has a benefit for a specific area of the city.
Cities need a strong vibrant downtown area that people come to and feel safe in, and live and work in so I think some public financing makes sense to me. I wish both sides could be honest about what they're getting out of it instead of talking about fictional economic data, but politics doesn't often reward honesty.
I think it would be cool, honestly, to have a stadium downtown. I may not hang in a “ballpark village,” but would probably hit up some establishments in the vicinity. There would be some benefit to having a stadium there. But the numbers the team is throwing around are wildly overblown. Like you said, a little honesty would be nice. We’re not going to get that from the team or their consultants.
I agree with you 100%. If Sherman wants a new stadium then fund it himself. Don't lie about the K being a money pit. Someone needs to tell him to save his funds and allocate them to the team payroll. That is where we currently need the investment. If Sherman was smart he would wait till the team was good and then propose a new stadium.
I imagine this season was not what he had in mind as he pushed forward for this stadium. This was going to be a difficult sell no matter what, but it’s bad timing for sure.
The taxes that are currently collected for the stadiums are for maintenance. I think it’s probably enough given that extensive renovations were done less than 15 years ago. Can’t say for the future, but that would be a question (and potential tax extension) they could kick down the road.
I no longer live in Missouri, so I'm not invested financially however it goes. But two, oddly opposing thoughts:
1) If you're just going to the ballgame, the K is perfect--on & off the interstate. Even when there's 30,000 people at the game, traffic is manageable.
2) If you're making an event of it, however, downtown would be great. I've been to the stadiums in St. Louis, Phoenix, Minneapolis, etc., and it's excellent to have a variety of restaurants before the game and (if it's an afternoon game) a few pubs within walking distance after the game.
Agree on both counts. There are benefits to be found wherever the stadium is located.
I went to Fenway for the first time just before the All-Star break. We walked from I guess what would be the outskirts of the downtown area. It was amazing to be able to walk to a game. Afterward, we hit up a restaurant on the way back toward downtown. So we didn’t really partake in the bars and restaurants immediately next to the stadium, but we did in the general area. That’s the benefit of having the stadium in the city.
Sherman doesn't seem to process the fact that he isn't lauded as a savior for stepping up to keep the team in local hands. Instead, he is acting and talking like a developer who is over-leveraged but will not walk away from a losing proposition (e.g. Mission Gateway). That makes is hard to trust his baseball decisions or promises, as well.
There should be no KCMO or Jackson County tax dollars for a downtown site, which will cannibalize and worsen the financial drain of P&L, and thus city services. If private investors/developers do not believe it's a risk worth taking, then the public should not bet either.
Invoking the Howser family is shady and ham-handed, given how few even recall that era today. It's totally beneath Sherman (and Sam Mellinger, who should know better). At this rate, George Brett will be dipping into the consulting fee punchbowl along with the usual political hacks that carry water for bad subsidy deals.
Sherman could be the "savior," as the leader of the local ownership group who stepped up after the Glass years. But I agree about it being difficult to trust his decisions or promises.
The Howser mention was just weird. But that's kind of how he writes these letters. The "everyman" approach. And don't forget that they brought out Buck O'Neil and Marcus Allen the last time this went to a vote.
It's always fun to watch guys like Sherman attempt to play the everyman. He needs to lose the prohibition era stache, for starters, if he really thinks he can run that playbook. He is just not relatable, and the harder he tries to be warm, the worse it gets.
It's going to be fascinating to watch how Mahomes answers questions about this once someone gets up the courage to ask him. His advisors are smart, and aren't likely to allow him to align with anything other than a landslide.
I'm curious what they have up their sleeve to try and flip Frank White, too.
In my mind, Frank White is a huge wild card in all this. He seems to always have an axe to grind and even though he appears to have made some amends with the organization, who knows where he’s going to fall.
Craig, I agree with your assessment about the Royals stadium situation. Great overview of all the maneuvering and juggling that are transpiring behind the curtain. Sherman needs to get a handle with his on field product before he drinks from the public well on this one. I don’t mind the proposal. I just question his timing. The Chiefs have a blank check moving forward in their stadium plans. Their climb to the top of the stadium summit is a gentle hike compared to the Royals K2 climb of “broken dreams and disastrous play.“ Hearts and minds would blindly follow his carrot at the end of the stick if he was even 20 games under .500. This is the worst timing on the worst team in KC baseball history. All of his arguments about the need for a new stadium ring hollow. He may be a genius about the need of a new stadium and the village, but right now this is a real head shaker to the taxpayers. At this “Death Valley” low point, I guess there’s no where to go but up and blindly follow. Jackson County fans can’t pay their property taxes, but they can finance this. Excuse me while I shake my head.
The sad fact is, given the state of the team - and this robber baron style stadium push - there are plenty of folks in KC who'd happily watch the Royals depart for Nashville or Portland, which would clear the way for Mahomes to spearhead an effort to bring the NBA to the Sprint Center in 5-10 years. That'd finally get the taxpayers off the hook for the P&L subsidy that's draining city services, and do far more for downtown than baseball.
I really hope this isn't the case. I'm hopeful the local ownership group means the team stays here, even if they don't get a stadium in the near-term. Hell, if the vote fails next year, they can regroup and try to push it through again later down the road. We'll see.
I am with you. The best case scenario right now might be that a ballot measure fails and forces them to be realistic about what the city can afford, and their fans want. And, to accept that playing their own ball rather than working in tandem with the Chiefs isn't going to get them anywhere.
My belief is that if the Hunt family - among the largest real estate owners/developers in the region - was desperate for the Royals to move out and free up land at the sports complex, we'd be getting strong signals to that effect. If any have been sent, I've missed them.
The hard reality that the KC metro area lacks the corporate earnings or job growth to fully support two major sports franchises (particularly baseball with its hopelessly bloated inventory). That was evident in the failed measure for the rolling roof in 2006, and perhaps we're overdue for another reminder to that effect.
Both teams seem to suffer from ownership whose primary goal is demonstrating to the rest of the MLB owners club that they have the clout to squeeze taxpayers. It'll be very interesting to see what the number look like if Portland does land a franchise. Caveat emptor.
Thanks, George. The arguments on the "why" for a new stadium do in fact ring hollow. Which I think we know why. Really the only way this passes in April is if the Royals make a couple of huge splashes this winter and if they can hitch their wagon to whatever they're doing at Arrowhead.
Great article. I wonder if the Dodgers plan to build a new stadium? They're situated on top of a hill, with no bars or restaurants. Dodger Stadium is older than Kauffman and not nearly as well maintained. I visited last summer and talk about crumbly and rundown!
As far as I know, there isn't any talk of a new stadium for the Dodgers. It's an entirely different market and given the sprawl of the area, I'm not sure what their options are if they decided to move. Also, they've done some large-scale renovations just like the Royals.
The basics are (1) Sherman want ball park to generate more revenue; (2) his numbers cannot be trusted; (3) his PR approach has been awful - now starting his letter with reference to iconic moment at K; (4) no Town has done what Sherman proposes - replace a beautiful and beloved renovated ballpark with a new one; (5) Clay County is just for leverage on Jackson County; and (6)at end of day, if KC needs new ballpark to keep Royals, then it will need to be done.
re: #5..... What is to become of the NKC parcel, then, if we are to believe it isn't being assembled for the Royals by Lord Sherman's chum Lord Merriman?
As a fan that isn't local, I find this a veiled threat still lobbying two sites at this point and it doesn't sit well. From the outside looking in, I certainly think it will make money for the village developers coming in and gentrifying downtown (but not the "community"). As a nonlocal fan tho, I would love to come visit a downtown stadium situated like Fenway or even the Jake where I can walk from where I stay and hit up some good food spots along the way, so I will be more tempted to come bring tourist dollars if ti goes downtown
I kind of doubt Sherman is often in the grocery checkout line, but please give him my regards if you see him
Thanks, Herbie! Clay County just feels like a patsy to me in all of this. A useful foil for the Royals when they’re trying to leverage anything from Johnson County.
I hear you on the downtown stadium being good for tourists. It’s a pain to get out to the Truman Sports Complex and if you’re flying in, you pretty much need to rent a car. That’s kind of the way it is in KC anyway, though.
Doubt I’ll see Sherman at the checkout line, but if I see him filling up his tank at the QT, I’ll be sure to say hello.
This has nothing to do with the Royals but…. I just saw online that the Dodgers have acquired Joe Kelly and Amed Rosario.
*whew* What a relief that is! Those poor impoverished Dodgers have such a terribly difficult time acquiring talent. I'm sure that everyone else here feels as sorry for them as I do.
Absolutely. And I think one of the first timesSherman proposed it, he made it sound like the owner group would pay for most of it. I’m probably remembering wrong or wishfully.
He's always said, when he's said anything, that the owners would pay for
- 100% of the ballpark village development around the stadium
- whatever portion of the stadium isn't funded publicly
Which just means he's going to try to get as much money as possible for the stadium from the tax payers.
Thanks for the clarification. Obviously it was wishful thinking on my part. :)
Like Seth said, the ballpark village will be 100% funded by the ownership group and the club. Which is the way it should be. He’s been very vague on how much the team will pony up for a new stadium. At this point, the lack of details is very frustrating to me.
Is this true, or does ownership also have to attract a developer to spearhead the village, with the team acting as an investor vs an operator?
I was told they need an outside partner, and there are zero local options, at least for Jackson County.
The Dunn family is in the ownership group, so I’d assume they’d be heavily involved in the development. Again, details here are rather murky. They probably do need an outside partner, but as long as that partner isn’t the taxpayers, I’m good with that.
Developers take risk on the outcome of a project; general contractors like Dunn get paid as long as they deliver the project to spec. Same for the architects and engineers and suppliers and consultants all cheerleading for the new boondoggle. None of them have any skin in the game, and they win even when taxpayers lose.
It'd be a positive to see Dunn put some skin in the game, but that's be a big reversal of a long history. More likely, they're helping lead the sales pitch to east coast developers like Cordish, given that no one local (including the Hunt family / Hunt Midwest) would touch this thing.
Good points. I’m very interested to see how Dunn will be involved.
This has reached a juncture where Sherman's interests are now potentially diverging from limited partners like Dunn, who get paid regardless of where the stadium lands. My knowledge about limited partner rules in MLB is zero, but it always amuses me when these deals get done and LP lists are strategically leaked to build excitement and credibility. I'd bet a fair number of folks in the Royals ownership group would love a do-over right about now, particularly if they have to cross the river for the handful of games they attend each season. It'll be telling whether Sherman has the sway to keep all of them united, or if leaks start emerging.
Kinda weird how we'll-move-the-team-to-wherever-gives-us-the-most-money is the more honest negotiating approach.
Anyway, it's not my tax money and I like the K, but I think downtown baseball is neat. I agree that the economic benefits are way oversold, but I do think it spurs cities to invest in infrastructure which I do think has a benefit for a specific area of the city.
Cities need a strong vibrant downtown area that people come to and feel safe in, and live and work in so I think some public financing makes sense to me. I wish both sides could be honest about what they're getting out of it instead of talking about fictional economic data, but politics doesn't often reward honesty.
I think it would be cool, honestly, to have a stadium downtown. I may not hang in a “ballpark village,” but would probably hit up some establishments in the vicinity. There would be some benefit to having a stadium there. But the numbers the team is throwing around are wildly overblown. Like you said, a little honesty would be nice. We’re not going to get that from the team or their consultants.
I agree with you 100%. If Sherman wants a new stadium then fund it himself. Don't lie about the K being a money pit. Someone needs to tell him to save his funds and allocate them to the team payroll. That is where we currently need the investment. If Sherman was smart he would wait till the team was good and then propose a new stadium.
I imagine this season was not what he had in mind as he pushed forward for this stadium. This was going to be a difficult sell no matter what, but it’s bad timing for sure.
The taxes that are currently collected for the stadiums are for maintenance. I think it’s probably enough given that extensive renovations were done less than 15 years ago. Can’t say for the future, but that would be a question (and potential tax extension) they could kick down the road.
I no longer live in Missouri, so I'm not invested financially however it goes. But two, oddly opposing thoughts:
1) If you're just going to the ballgame, the K is perfect--on & off the interstate. Even when there's 30,000 people at the game, traffic is manageable.
2) If you're making an event of it, however, downtown would be great. I've been to the stadiums in St. Louis, Phoenix, Minneapolis, etc., and it's excellent to have a variety of restaurants before the game and (if it's an afternoon game) a few pubs within walking distance after the game.
I don't know how I'd vote on this idea,
Agree on both counts. There are benefits to be found wherever the stadium is located.
I went to Fenway for the first time just before the All-Star break. We walked from I guess what would be the outskirts of the downtown area. It was amazing to be able to walk to a game. Afterward, we hit up a restaurant on the way back toward downtown. So we didn’t really partake in the bars and restaurants immediately next to the stadium, but we did in the general area. That’s the benefit of having the stadium in the city.
Sherman doesn't seem to process the fact that he isn't lauded as a savior for stepping up to keep the team in local hands. Instead, he is acting and talking like a developer who is over-leveraged but will not walk away from a losing proposition (e.g. Mission Gateway). That makes is hard to trust his baseball decisions or promises, as well.
There should be no KCMO or Jackson County tax dollars for a downtown site, which will cannibalize and worsen the financial drain of P&L, and thus city services. If private investors/developers do not believe it's a risk worth taking, then the public should not bet either.
Invoking the Howser family is shady and ham-handed, given how few even recall that era today. It's totally beneath Sherman (and Sam Mellinger, who should know better). At this rate, George Brett will be dipping into the consulting fee punchbowl along with the usual political hacks that carry water for bad subsidy deals.
Sherman could be the "savior," as the leader of the local ownership group who stepped up after the Glass years. But I agree about it being difficult to trust his decisions or promises.
The Howser mention was just weird. But that's kind of how he writes these letters. The "everyman" approach. And don't forget that they brought out Buck O'Neil and Marcus Allen the last time this went to a vote.
It's always fun to watch guys like Sherman attempt to play the everyman. He needs to lose the prohibition era stache, for starters, if he really thinks he can run that playbook. He is just not relatable, and the harder he tries to be warm, the worse it gets.
It's going to be fascinating to watch how Mahomes answers questions about this once someone gets up the courage to ask him. His advisors are smart, and aren't likely to allow him to align with anything other than a landslide.
I'm curious what they have up their sleeve to try and flip Frank White, too.
In my mind, Frank White is a huge wild card in all this. He seems to always have an axe to grind and even though he appears to have made some amends with the organization, who knows where he’s going to fall.
He has not left himself a lot of room to maneuver with his statements thus far.
Craig, I agree with your assessment about the Royals stadium situation. Great overview of all the maneuvering and juggling that are transpiring behind the curtain. Sherman needs to get a handle with his on field product before he drinks from the public well on this one. I don’t mind the proposal. I just question his timing. The Chiefs have a blank check moving forward in their stadium plans. Their climb to the top of the stadium summit is a gentle hike compared to the Royals K2 climb of “broken dreams and disastrous play.“ Hearts and minds would blindly follow his carrot at the end of the stick if he was even 20 games under .500. This is the worst timing on the worst team in KC baseball history. All of his arguments about the need for a new stadium ring hollow. He may be a genius about the need of a new stadium and the village, but right now this is a real head shaker to the taxpayers. At this “Death Valley” low point, I guess there’s no where to go but up and blindly follow. Jackson County fans can’t pay their property taxes, but they can finance this. Excuse me while I shake my head.
The sad fact is, given the state of the team - and this robber baron style stadium push - there are plenty of folks in KC who'd happily watch the Royals depart for Nashville or Portland, which would clear the way for Mahomes to spearhead an effort to bring the NBA to the Sprint Center in 5-10 years. That'd finally get the taxpayers off the hook for the P&L subsidy that's draining city services, and do far more for downtown than baseball.
I really hope this isn't the case. I'm hopeful the local ownership group means the team stays here, even if they don't get a stadium in the near-term. Hell, if the vote fails next year, they can regroup and try to push it through again later down the road. We'll see.
I am with you. The best case scenario right now might be that a ballot measure fails and forces them to be realistic about what the city can afford, and their fans want. And, to accept that playing their own ball rather than working in tandem with the Chiefs isn't going to get them anywhere.
My belief is that if the Hunt family - among the largest real estate owners/developers in the region - was desperate for the Royals to move out and free up land at the sports complex, we'd be getting strong signals to that effect. If any have been sent, I've missed them.
The hard reality that the KC metro area lacks the corporate earnings or job growth to fully support two major sports franchises (particularly baseball with its hopelessly bloated inventory). That was evident in the failed measure for the rolling roof in 2006, and perhaps we're overdue for another reminder to that effect.
As a Royals fan in Portland I like the way you think.
But I’d rather the Royals stay where they belong and the A’s move to Portland. Sadly that seems to be off the table
Both teams seem to suffer from ownership whose primary goal is demonstrating to the rest of the MLB owners club that they have the clout to squeeze taxpayers. It'll be very interesting to see what the number look like if Portland does land a franchise. Caveat emptor.
Thanks, George. The arguments on the "why" for a new stadium do in fact ring hollow. Which I think we know why. Really the only way this passes in April is if the Royals make a couple of huge splashes this winter and if they can hitch their wagon to whatever they're doing at Arrowhead.
Great article. I wonder if the Dodgers plan to build a new stadium? They're situated on top of a hill, with no bars or restaurants. Dodger Stadium is older than Kauffman and not nearly as well maintained. I visited last summer and talk about crumbly and rundown!
As far as I know, there isn't any talk of a new stadium for the Dodgers. It's an entirely different market and given the sprawl of the area, I'm not sure what their options are if they decided to move. Also, they've done some large-scale renovations just like the Royals.
The basics are (1) Sherman want ball park to generate more revenue; (2) his numbers cannot be trusted; (3) his PR approach has been awful - now starting his letter with reference to iconic moment at K; (4) no Town has done what Sherman proposes - replace a beautiful and beloved renovated ballpark with a new one; (5) Clay County is just for leverage on Jackson County; and (6)at end of day, if KC needs new ballpark to keep Royals, then it will need to be done.
Hahaha...I think you took a few words to sum up what took me a couple thousand to write. I agree with items 1-6. 100%.
re: #5..... What is to become of the NKC parcel, then, if we are to believe it isn't being assembled for the Royals by Lord Sherman's chum Lord Merriman?
Thanks for the writing Craig, glad you are back
As a fan that isn't local, I find this a veiled threat still lobbying two sites at this point and it doesn't sit well. From the outside looking in, I certainly think it will make money for the village developers coming in and gentrifying downtown (but not the "community"). As a nonlocal fan tho, I would love to come visit a downtown stadium situated like Fenway or even the Jake where I can walk from where I stay and hit up some good food spots along the way, so I will be more tempted to come bring tourist dollars if ti goes downtown
I kind of doubt Sherman is often in the grocery checkout line, but please give him my regards if you see him
Thanks, Herbie! Clay County just feels like a patsy to me in all of this. A useful foil for the Royals when they’re trying to leverage anything from Johnson County.
I hear you on the downtown stadium being good for tourists. It’s a pain to get out to the Truman Sports Complex and if you’re flying in, you pretty much need to rent a car. That’s kind of the way it is in KC anyway, though.
Doubt I’ll see Sherman at the checkout line, but if I see him filling up his tank at the QT, I’ll be sure to say hello.
This has nothing to do with the Royals but…. I just saw online that the Dodgers have acquired Joe Kelly and Amed Rosario.
*whew* What a relief that is! Those poor impoverished Dodgers have such a terribly difficult time acquiring talent. I'm sure that everyone else here feels as sorry for them as I do.